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Talk:Rank
Conception There is already an article about ranks called Starfleet ranks, which has a table of all ranks used in Starfleet, but lacks the further descriptions started in this one. I think these two should either be merged or, since the topics aren't exactly the same, edited to support each other in content. -- Cid Highwind 14:42, 14 Jan 2004 (PST) :I've moved this page to Rank because it's more appropriate for the wiki format, especially for cases in which a person is referring to a single rank, which is easier to type than rank. Either way, I think that this page should stay, if it branches out into ranks in general -- especially stuff like Romulan ranks, Jem'Hadar ranks, and so forth. -- MinutiaeMan 16:18, 14 Jan 2004 (PST) EDIT: Done... There is a discrepancy between article titles on this page and on Starfleet ranks (Fleet Admiral vs. Fleet admiral, ...). I think the first variant is the better one, but it should at least be consistent. -- Cid Highwind 09:52, 25 Jan 2004 (PST) Lt. JG Should it not be Lieutenant JG rather than "Junior Lieutenant"? -- DarkHorizon 10:34, 25 Jan 2004 (PST) :I'm no expert on military ranks, but Junior Lieutenant seems to exist in some armies in eastern europe only - and for what it's worth, Google shows about ten times as many results for Lieutenant Junior Grade. The latter one is already linked on some pages, BTW. -- Cid Highwind 11:33, 25 Jan 2004 (PST) ::Fair enough. Even though, to my knowledge, neither term has ever been canonically mentioned on Trek, most JGs are just called lieutenant... :::They have established the term Lieutenant Junior Grade in the episode of -- Moreah3:55, 23 Jan 2007 (EST) Rank name capitalization As far as I am aware, Military ranks are titles and should be spelt with a capital initial. Alex Peckover 11:31, Jun 12, 2004 (CEST) :well, they are not proper nouns unless someone of that rank is being referred to. plus, capitalizations have been discussed, they have been changed and then reverted already (see the talk page about the Xyz System/Xyz system discussion). besides, by going through and chagning the link names, links will end up being broken. i think that any rank that has a second word that might be capitalized should have a redirect so that we can link to both versions any way, to avoid piping the link when we need it capitalized.. there are only like two or three where this actually applies! --Captain Mike K. Bartel 16:51, 12 Jun 2004 (CEST) :Memory Alpha:Naming conventions --Captain Mike K. Bartel 20:26, 12 Jun 2004 (CEST) :: Moved from forum. ::Because we base a lot of our work on MA's over at the fanfic wiki, I've often found myself asking why the rank names such as Lieutenant Commander, the various chiefs and Fleet Admiral are spelled with their second and subsequent words in lower case. Why is this done, especially since Wikipedia capitalizes the full name of the rank, and the US Navy, upon which Trek's rank scheme is based, capitalizes the ranks as well? --Kevin W. Tlk 05:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC) :there are (or should be) upper case redirects for all such terms and titles. I have tried to base this on American English capitalization and composition rules. :The US Navy uses capitalizations for emphasis as procedure, and Wikipedia is based on international forms of English that differ from the American standard. Since Star Trek is an American English production, the lowercase variations are the most useful to us. :It makes it easier to use the ranks in the non-proper noun sense -- for example "Data was a lieutenant commander," rather than "Data was a lieutenant commander." but the redirect still allow us to type "Lieutenant Commander Data was a..." -- Captain M.K.B. 05:32, 6 March 2007 (UTC) :: Well, when used in the middle of a sentence, they'd be completely lower-case, but the titles should be capitalized. Besides, it's easier to type out the lower case and have that redirect, especially since it's two less buttons to press. :) --Kevin W. Tlk 05:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC) Non-canon grades I removed a few ranks from the list, and reverted an edit to re-add them -- there are no references to the following ranks in any canon production: * lieutenant general * brigadier general (the alternate "brigadier" has been used however) * ables'man * various grades of sergeant (which is canonically referenced) We really can't add new articles for these unless a reference in a production can be supplied to back it up. We are not going to supply a complete summary of the structure of the US armed forces, because its not really relevant to Star Trek. We will only create new articles for rank seen on the show. I think there might be hope for the general grades, however -- we may add a new article for whatever grade of General Rex Denning was, for example. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 03:47, 2 Mar 2005 (GMT) And by examining the insignia and credits of Star Trek IV may yield some info about aircraft carrier Enterprise Marine lieutenant grades. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 03:50, 2 Mar 2005 (GMT) :It's pretty tangential, but we do have Geordi singing "I Am the Very Model of a Modern Major-General"... --Josiah Rowe 03:51, 2 Mar 2005 (GMT) I've added an article for it, based on that -- it still needs a reference write up though. I've also backtracked a little on the reversion that began this discussion -- i'm creating and article for lieutenant general, first because i strongly believe there will be an instance of a three-star general seen somewhere in a canon capacity (i have been taking caps and have identified varied German flag officer ranks already, in "Patterns of Force"), i created the article secondly because of a possible cross reference with West -- i've found, in , that in the British rank system, a general (any grade of general) can be made a commander of a regiment, properly referred to as "colonel of the regiment" even though he is a general by rank (this is used for cases of royalty) -- West was wearing a vice admiral pin -- and vice admiral is directly equivalent to lieutenant general -- meaning that if the pin signifies either flag rank, the title he was addressed with, colonel, was simply a title; he could be either a vice admiral or lieutenant general by rank, since he was referenced as being in command in some degree of Starfleet's military. master chief petty officer had a pin insignia created for it in the Star Trek Movies -- i still havent checked a variety of screencaps to see if an article could be created from a few possible appearances. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 20:38, 11 Mar 2005 (GMT) Warrant officer Isn't there a rank for Warrant officers aswell? Shouldn't that one be included to? Removed Removed Commander-in-Chief and Fleet Captain as these are positions not ranks. – StarFire209 19:31, 23 August 2007 (UTC) Rewording Previously wording made it seem like Bajoran and Klingon ranks were based on Earth militaries, stated that Britain and Germany influenced Starfleet ranks when it's almost exclusively American and wasn't well-worded. US systems are based on the British systems but the British systems don't show much direct influence outside of "brigadier" versus the US "brigadier general." I don't see any influence from the German systems. – StarFire209 19:18, 4 September 2007 (UTC) Honorary Commander Doctor Pulaski Should Dr. Pulaski be added to this list, as her page mentions that her rank of commander is honorary as well in "Where Silence Is Lease" 00:56, May 29, 2015 (UTC) :If it was definitely mentioned in canon that she was an honorary commander then yes, go ahead and add it. --| TrekFan Open a channel 15:57, May 29, 2015 (UTC) ::I can't find any evidence, chakoteya-ing the term "honorary" for that episode. Is it in an okudagram? --LauraCC (talk) 21:12, May 10, 2016 (UTC) ::: I think it was her questioning whether Data's rank was honorary. Merge I'm suggesting this page be merged with Rank under the heading of "Honorary ranks" since at least one of the references (to Data) relates to his rank of lieutenant commander and I'm certain the "honorary" part of the title won't just relate to those holding the rank of commander. --| TrekFan Open a channel 16:00, May 29, 2015 (UTC) :Support. Tom (talk) 16:36, May 29, 2015 (UTC) :Yes -- Captain MKB 09:08, May 30, 2015 (UTC) ::Merged. Tom (talk) 16:22, June 9, 2015 (UTC) Promotion and demotion Would this be the place to discuss promotion and demotion, or do they deserve their own pages? :promotion and demotion --Alan del Beccio (talk) 22:26, August 30, 2017 (UTC) Warrant officer reference The article has the following section: Other grades Commandant Midshipman Fleet captain The Star Trek Encyclopedia describes this rank as equivalent to that of "warrant officer". Cadet Specialist Trainee (ENT: "The Catwalk") Uhlan Surely that note about "equivalent to warrant officer" is out of place? It seems to be referring to Fleet Captain! --Khajidha (talk) 18:03, April 17, 2017 (UTC) : It was originally placed with "midshipman". --Alan del Beccio (talk) 16:49, April 19, 2017 (UTC) Rate Why is this page saying citation needed, I provided references 1 and 2?--Captainsjm (talk) 10:48, April 26, 2018 (UTC) : Just a blind stab in the dark here with a toothpick at a fart, but maybe because there is Star Trek source''d'' material. The fact, too, that this page is might give someone the impression to that "rates" have never discussed in Star Trek, making this purely original research, given there was any sort of content to the page. --Alan (talk) 11:09, April 26, 2018 (UTC) : PS: A Star Trek sourced quote: :* "Gold uniform indicates specialty in Security or Engineering. Rank, Chief Petty Officer. You are what Starfleet refers to as a noncom." ( ) : That regarding one Miles O'Brien. --Alan (talk) 11:13, April 26, 2018 (UTC) MA refers to enlisted personnel having ranks. In the real world this is incorrect, navy enlisted personnel have "rates" instead of ranks (see here: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ranks/rates/rates.html). Since Starfleet's structure is based off of the U.S. Navy, one would think that Starfleet's enlisted personnel would have rates instead of ranks as well. I've tried to replace the word rank with the word rate on pages referring to enlisted personnel, only to have my changes reversed. What do you all think, should MA be changed so that any mention of an enlisted person having a rank is replaced by the term rate? --Captainsjm (talk) 03:57, May 2, 2018 (UTC) : And you've been responded to, specifically at Talk:Rate. Your acknowledgement was zero. Then this forum page. : Star Trek is not the real world, and as you've said it yourself it's ranking system "is based off of" the real world, but is not 100% compatible with. Dialog proves this as fact (see talk:rate). : Your link here is not a Star Trek sanctioned source, therefore it is not a canon source. Our information is based off of what is seen and said on screen, and had you actually read, talk:rate, you'd see why rate so happens to be a moot term and CPO is a rank in the Star Trek universe, hence why rate doesn't exist on this site, outside the uncited article you created on the topic. : So, this little "what you do ya'll think" thing is really irrelevant: this isn't about forcing something to exist in the Star Trek universe because it exists in the real world because it simply doesn't exist in Star Trek universe to begin with. : I've put far more time and research into the Trek aspect of this topic than can find on the Google, and simply put, every aspect as canonically possible has been written on the topic of enlisted personnel. --Alan (talk) 04:08, May 2, 2018 (UTC) Do you happen to know whether it was Gene Roddenberry's intention for the enlisted personnel to have ranks instead of rates? --Captainsjm (talk) 04:48, May 2, 2018 (UTC) : Have you made any attempt to read our articles? The article for word you just used, enlisted, covers just that. --Alan (talk) 05:45, May 2, 2018 (UTC)